I agree with most of the comments here (minus the roundabout hater) in that pedestrian safety is mildly improved with the islands. However, I will make one positive observation in that the overall pedestrian space does get improved in each quadrant. You can notice the sidewalks seem wider and there is more space for tables in the corners. This would be more in line with newer urban spaces and could create more opportunity for small business owners as it encourages pedestrians to hang out longer in those areas. The seating today around the food vendors seems more “in the way” and this design does a better job of incorporating.
I agree though that the street crossings are in some ways worse than today. The car traffic flow is pretty much the same as today….just a difference in painting the same lines. Cheers
Bottom line, leave it alone. I'm sure their are more important and more meaningful things to spend the money on. Downtown Troy is starting to resemble going to Dayton on I75.We are a town of 26000 quit trying to turn us into a big city
I've been talking to business owners and employees both inside and outside of the square. Almost everyone is against these plans, and especially the idea of shutting down the square for the duration of construction. I have to agree, this is a pointless plan that will do harm during it's construction. If it can't be stopped, at least the remaining businesses in the square will have nicer parking when it's done, I guess.
Currently, at all four vehicular entrances to the square there are dual traffic lanes passing over the crosswalks. A design element of the new plan is to have just one lane at 3 of the 4 entrances. This would seem to affect pedestrian safety and perhaps throttle traffic.
I hope that would be the case. The pavement width seems to be more narrow, which would be more helpful. I still tend to believe that having a better treatment of those crosswalks (more than just traffic island) should be on the table.
I see there is a plan for a downtown restroom on Prouty Plaza next to the Mayflower. Why not dual-purpose the building by building a covered stage on the restroom’s roof? More room for seating on the Plaza.
The restrooms are currently being constructed, and you can see them from the plaza. Could a covered stage be built. Perhaps. A rendering of this would be interesting.
So your plan is to take out half the parking and put trees up over half the business entrances? I go through the circle 5 times a day and have never had a problem with traffic. This is horrible and that money should go to fixing the streets we already have.
The parking spaces in the four quadrants actually remain the same but yes, the traffic through the square seems to move well. Why we need to add another lane in the roundabout, through a project that was DESIGNED FOR PEDESTRIAN SAFETY, is beyond me.
Thank you for sharing. Keeping the downtown area attractive is important. However, is there really a traffic issue? Waiting an extra 2 -3 minutes isn't exactly a traffic jam. In addition, the slower pace is safer....especially for the pedestrian walk ways. In addition, as stated, it may benefit local business.
The proposed lanes on the east side seem like how my memory tells me it used to be. Does anyone have an old picture? It was treacherous to enter from the east and cross lanes of circling traffic. Visibility of the inner-circle lane would be blocked by the outer circle. Plus, at the 4 o’clock position drivers in the inner-circle lane would shift outward to head north.
The human factors for drivers with the current symmetric layout are much simplified.
Yeah, there used to be two lanes in the circle all the way around and that was also when traffic in the circle needed to yield to traffic coming into the circle; it was an absolute mess. Getting in that inside lane meant you were there forever. Having it only on one side, I am not exactly sure how that will work.
My first thoughts are always optimistic when it comes to proposals that encourage uniting the quadrants of Public Square. Traffic calming design in recent years has greatly helped, and these plans are a logical next step.
I wish I had the same optimism. This was originally billed as a "pedestrian safety" improvement. Other than the traffic islands, where is the "pedestrian safety"? Getting traffic through the downtown square isn't inherently safer for pedestrians. Making the quadrants look pretty isn't inherently a pedestrian safety improvement. Put in the traffic islands and stop!
There are many people who won’t patronize businesses downtown during this project. Construction has been a nightmare for years on Main Street with the ongoing one near I75, the tavern debacle, now this??? This is a designated truck route and I used to be a truck driver. I can’t even begin to imagine the thoughts going through the heads of truck drivers trying to get through Troy to do their job. I don’t even come downtown to the strawberry festival anymore because if you can find a place somewhere in Troy to park, you’ll have to walk a mile, you have to walk all the way across the bridge out to the football stadium to get your donuts, which is about another mile, or it seems like it, the asphalt is way too hot in the summer when it’s hot, and it’s just no fun anymore walking around on asphalt. Can’t you find a more worthwhile Project to spend that moldy taxpayer money on? So much $$$$$$ is wasted on the “planning”, and no thoughts from the community or businesses that will suffer during that construction. Hasn’t Troy’s Main Street been disrupted enough?
What wisdom is there in the second lane being added? I'm old enough to recall when there were two lanes all the way round the circle. You had to yield to the right, which meant if you were stuck in the inside lane, you could forget about getting out during rush hour. Also, who exactly are the 'stakeholders' that keep getting mentioned? To me, these are the business owners downtown only. I may be wrong, but I think we are shutting out the 26000 taxpayers who are footing the bill for this nonsense. Let's give them a voice.
I agree with most of the comments here (minus the roundabout hater) in that pedestrian safety is mildly improved with the islands. However, I will make one positive observation in that the overall pedestrian space does get improved in each quadrant. You can notice the sidewalks seem wider and there is more space for tables in the corners. This would be more in line with newer urban spaces and could create more opportunity for small business owners as it encourages pedestrians to hang out longer in those areas. The seating today around the food vendors seems more “in the way” and this design does a better job of incorporating.
I agree though that the street crossings are in some ways worse than today. The car traffic flow is pretty much the same as today….just a difference in painting the same lines. Cheers
This may be the dumbest idea ever, right up there with a roundabout for W. Main/Experiment Farm!
They’re just adding Boulevard to Boulevard in there. I can’t believe we paid good taxpayer money to an engineering firm for them to come up with that.
Bottom line, leave it alone. I'm sure their are more important and more meaningful things to spend the money on. Downtown Troy is starting to resemble going to Dayton on I75.We are a town of 26000 quit trying to turn us into a big city
.
I've been talking to business owners and employees both inside and outside of the square. Almost everyone is against these plans, and especially the idea of shutting down the square for the duration of construction. I have to agree, this is a pointless plan that will do harm during it's construction. If it can't be stopped, at least the remaining businesses in the square will have nicer parking when it's done, I guess.
To also note:
Currently, at all four vehicular entrances to the square there are dual traffic lanes passing over the crosswalks. A design element of the new plan is to have just one lane at 3 of the 4 entrances. This would seem to affect pedestrian safety and perhaps throttle traffic.
I hope that would be the case. The pavement width seems to be more narrow, which would be more helpful. I still tend to believe that having a better treatment of those crosswalks (more than just traffic island) should be on the table.
The schedule shows Public Information Meetings starting in January 2025. You sure jumped the gun on getting that started.
Well, I would just point out that it was the city that had the public meeting last week on this topic.
I see there is a plan for a downtown restroom on Prouty Plaza next to the Mayflower. Why not dual-purpose the building by building a covered stage on the restroom’s roof? More room for seating on the Plaza.
The restrooms are currently being constructed, and you can see them from the plaza. Could a covered stage be built. Perhaps. A rendering of this would be interesting.
So your plan is to take out half the parking and put trees up over half the business entrances? I go through the circle 5 times a day and have never had a problem with traffic. This is horrible and that money should go to fixing the streets we already have.
The parking spaces in the four quadrants actually remain the same but yes, the traffic through the square seems to move well. Why we need to add another lane in the roundabout, through a project that was DESIGNED FOR PEDESTRIAN SAFETY, is beyond me.
Thank you for sharing. Keeping the downtown area attractive is important. However, is there really a traffic issue? Waiting an extra 2 -3 minutes isn't exactly a traffic jam. In addition, the slower pace is safer....especially for the pedestrian walk ways. In addition, as stated, it may benefit local business.
The proposed lanes on the east side seem like how my memory tells me it used to be. Does anyone have an old picture? It was treacherous to enter from the east and cross lanes of circling traffic. Visibility of the inner-circle lane would be blocked by the outer circle. Plus, at the 4 o’clock position drivers in the inner-circle lane would shift outward to head north.
The human factors for drivers with the current symmetric layout are much simplified.
Watch the webcam.
Yeah, there used to be two lanes in the circle all the way around and that was also when traffic in the circle needed to yield to traffic coming into the circle; it was an absolute mess. Getting in that inside lane meant you were there forever. Having it only on one side, I am not exactly sure how that will work.
If I remember right, it wasn't just yield to incoming, but you had to yield to traffic on the right, which meant the other circle lane as well.
My first thoughts are always optimistic when it comes to proposals that encourage uniting the quadrants of Public Square. Traffic calming design in recent years has greatly helped, and these plans are a logical next step.
I wish I had the same optimism. This was originally billed as a "pedestrian safety" improvement. Other than the traffic islands, where is the "pedestrian safety"? Getting traffic through the downtown square isn't inherently safer for pedestrians. Making the quadrants look pretty isn't inherently a pedestrian safety improvement. Put in the traffic islands and stop!
There are many people who won’t patronize businesses downtown during this project. Construction has been a nightmare for years on Main Street with the ongoing one near I75, the tavern debacle, now this??? This is a designated truck route and I used to be a truck driver. I can’t even begin to imagine the thoughts going through the heads of truck drivers trying to get through Troy to do their job. I don’t even come downtown to the strawberry festival anymore because if you can find a place somewhere in Troy to park, you’ll have to walk a mile, you have to walk all the way across the bridge out to the football stadium to get your donuts, which is about another mile, or it seems like it, the asphalt is way too hot in the summer when it’s hot, and it’s just no fun anymore walking around on asphalt. Can’t you find a more worthwhile Project to spend that moldy taxpayer money on? So much $$$$$$ is wasted on the “planning”, and no thoughts from the community or businesses that will suffer during that construction. Hasn’t Troy’s Main Street been disrupted enough?
What wisdom is there in the second lane being added? I'm old enough to recall when there were two lanes all the way round the circle. You had to yield to the right, which meant if you were stuck in the inside lane, you could forget about getting out during rush hour. Also, who exactly are the 'stakeholders' that keep getting mentioned? To me, these are the business owners downtown only. I may be wrong, but I think we are shutting out the 26000 taxpayers who are footing the bill for this nonsense. Let's give them a voice.